3
lazaronylazarony
  • 30
  • Male
  • United States United States
  • 503 comments
  • Joined 6 years ago
  • Last Visited 3 years ago
  • 147.21.XXX.XXX

Personality

CholericSanguine
ESTJ
8w7
Chaotic Good

Outlook

Heterosexual
Christ Alone
Fiscally Conservative, Socially Meh
IT
IT

Appearance

White
196 cm/6' 5"
91 kg/200 lbs
Slim
Brown
Brown
No

Irregularities

In Ten Words...

4
3
69
218
11
1
62
16
18
1

Contact Info


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Send

About Me

Based on my ratings, I'm a well-spoken, thought-provoking jerk.

Sorry about that last part. I'm working on it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I consider myself Christian in the sense that Christ is my Lord and Savior, and my only purpose for existing is God's glory.

Keep in mind, my belief is only those who put their faith in Christ as Lord and Savior will go to heaven. This doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're stupid if you're not a Christian. Nor does it mean I think I'm better than you. I think I'm blessed, and I want nothing more than to share that blessing with you.

The compliment to this, of course, is that if you don't believe in Christ, you're going to hell. Again, I'm not better than you, but it's similar to seeing someone about to step off the sidewalk into the path of a bus, from which there's no escape. I hope that my sense of urgency doesn't come across as anger or a lack of tolerance, but merely as a manifestation of my concern. I also want to emphasize, in light of a recent blurb, that I do not personally condemn or damn anyone to hell. Not only is it not my place to do so, it is not within my power, and certainly not my desire; in fact, even if it was my place, power, and desire, I do not have the knowledge to do so: only God knows one's heart, and as such I can never truly know if someone is a believer or not. My goal is simply to relay God's message of love, though, when asked, I will not sugar-coat or avoid the truth that is the potential for damnation.

While I may seem confrontational at times, I'll try to be respectful.

When an opportunity arises to discuss my faith, I will do so.

When arguments are presented against my faith, I will do my best to defend it.

I'll try not to be confrontational, and I make a point of not being insulting or dismissive, but I may slip up at times, as it's more or less my nature (choleric/sanguine and all...sigh).

Anyway, feel free to send me a PM if you find a post of mine to be overly aggressive, and I'll make an earnest effort to correct it. I like a good argument, but I don't like it to get heated.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Side note: I have a borderline fanatical obsession with Star Wars. The only tattoo I have is the Rebel Insignia on my left shoulder blade (I plan to add the Imperial Insignia on the right). I love the movies (even the bad acting in the prequel trilogy), and have read roughly 90% of all the "Extended Universe"books. Can't get enough.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote:
He has given more than one negative blurb over very minor incidents, as minor as a single post disagreeing with his views.

Just to defend myself a little bit here: I have given 7 blurbs: 3 positive, 1 neutral, and 3 negative. All three negative blurbs were given after extended conversations with the involved parties that included gratuitous personal attacks on me that were irrelevant to the conversation.

Likes

ComputersContextFig HunterGodKongregateLogicMardekMathematicsMinecraftMusicReadingReasonStar WarsThoughtfulnessVideo Games

Dislikes

Jumping to conclusionsMisconceptionsNot reading the whole postOnline PiracySelf-entitlement

8 Friends

2 Fans

on 4 Roots

46 Comments

php213
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This may be confusing to anyone just happening upon this page, but I just wanted to tell you that I'm sorry for taking a while to respond to your post; that huge chunk of text that I'm going to have to respond to seems a bit daunting today and I need some time to gather my thoughts.
MajorBob
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MajorBob 26 Antarctica SanguinePhlegmatic INFP 2w1 82C
I thoroughly enjoy reading through your escapades of wordplay. It's refreshing to see someone here who has the capacity put into tactful words the ideas that I haven't been able to properly express. :D
lazarony
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lazarony 30 United States CholericSanguine ESTJ 8w7 503C
While I certainly appreciate the sentiment, I would like to point out that you are not exactly a lingual slob yourself. The majority of your posts (that I have seen, anyway) have been extremely well organized and used the language to its fullest extent in conveying your meaning. I am particularly impressed at your diction, given that mine tends to be extremely verbose and esoteric. Yours, on the other hand, seems to use specific words whose connotations give your statement even more depth, instead of my "EVN MOAR LETTERS!!~1" methodology.

I realize that came out rather...complicated; Basically, you achieve a great deal of meaningful content while maintaining ease of understanding and simplicity in style. I get more and more complicated as I go. So kudos to you, sir, very impressive!
MajorBob
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MajorBob 26 Antarctica SanguinePhlegmatic INFP 2w1 82C
Ha! What you call simplicity, I call normal. But thanks! ^.^ Is it just me, or does it seem like the people here appear to type up all of their posts on some offline office document and right click every single word, one at a time, choosing a synonym that makes their previously simple and understandable statement sound overly complicated and much more intelligenter? I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have to read/write a full dissertation on to how one would react to a zombie infestation. It's not that I don't have an expanded vocabulary (though I'm not gonna pretend that I understood some of what you just said), but I think I've picked up the habit of explaining things so that an eight year old can understand my point. Well hey, I'm glad someone appreciates my command of simple analogies. ^.^
Seiryuu
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OK, seriously, why are we still having an argument that doesn't have any good support on either end? One cannot prove nor disprove any supernatural entities, so why bother arguing? Whether or not you believe in the existence of one, the only life it affects is yourself. The belief (or lack thereof) affects only the perceiver, not anyone else.

lazarony
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lazarony 30 United States CholericSanguine ESTJ 8w7 503C
I don't know...someone posted it on my comment page, so I answered, and thus the conversation was born again.
Regenesus
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I really disagree with lazarony on just about everything, but I'll be blunt here... Just leave him alone, okay? As you said, "the only life it affects is yourself."

If someone posts a comment on his page attacking his religious beliefs, it makes perfect sense for him to defend himself, and he deserves the right to do so without being harassed for it. If you're agnostic then you of all people should understand the emotional benefits people derive from religion and you should not be working to "convince" them away from it with comments such as this one. Also, if you are going to accuse him of starting "crapstorms," perhaps you should avoid being so argumentative yourself. Telling him there is no support for religion is an argument. You are trying to show you are correct. Argument.

I apologize for the harsh tone, but it really is sickening seeing so many people gang up on one of this community's few vocal Christians simply to make themselves feel smarter or more enlightened. Grow up, people. There are smart Christians out there who are capable of intelligent conversation. Learn to respect them.

(And rate this with as many negative F's and G's as you want, we both know that the ones really negatively affecting the community are those who attack this guy just because they can.)
Seiryuu
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tl;dr

I'm not trying to make myself seem smarter than him. Far from it. See, if he were to merely talk about theology without saying that all us non-believers are going to hell, I wouldn't mind (as much). If you want to white-knight, be my guest.
Regenesus
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haha lulul 4chan lolz

No. I am not being a "white-knight," I am telling you not to be a dick toward someone simply because he is a Christian. Yes, he thinks that you will go to hell. That is his religious belief. Since he is a traditional Christian his theology centers around saving people through God; I have no clue what else you expect him to talk about. He does not want nonbelievers to go to hell, he wants to help nonbelievers. He cares about people. If you find that offensive, I would like to know why.

You have no right to bash on him for contributing his opinion in a discussion. You do not have to agree with it, but you can at least be civil and show him some respect.
Seiryuu
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durr hurr //b// is funny

There's a line where respect just falls flat. What, pray tell, is a traditional Christian? Which sect are you referring to? As much as he wants to save people, I wish he'd at least understand that a myriad of other outcomes are possible and not just his.
Regenesus
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The term "traditional Christian" does not need to refer to any particular sect, it simply refers to Christians who follow the traditional guidelines of salvation. The more progressive ideas that heaven is open to non-Christians or those with ordinary moral codes are only fairly recent liberal ideas, and not every Christian abides by them.

I wish he would understand there are other possibilities, too, but that is his religious belief... Unless he seeks guidance, there really is no point in trying to force it on him. It also takes understanding from people of different faiths than his, however, to recognize that he only has the best intentions. He did not decide that nonbelievers go to hell because he hates nonbelievers; that is just something he pulled out of the Bible.

∞ The Bible does imply that unbelievers go to hell. ∞

That is his belief. It may change as he ages and learns, or it may become more adamant. There really is no point in trying to change that faith, though, especially if he is at least friendly about it...
Seiryuu
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Indeed. Well, I hope he understands that people are able to find salvation in other ways.
Regenesus
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Thank you for hearing me out. Sorry if you feel I attacked you, it isn't anything personal, but if you have seen any of the other messages I posted around the same time as this one, I would like to squelch situations like these before they become more common...
Seiryuu
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No, no, I understand. I tend to get a little heated in arguments about religion especially when people say that one goes to hell when they do not subscribe to their religion, despite others saying the same thing about theirs with equally as no evidence that this is the case.
lazarony
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lazarony 30 United States CholericSanguine ESTJ 8w7 503C
Similarly, I hope you understand that there is no other way ;) I appreciate the majority of your contributions to the discussions that have taken place on the topic, Seiryuu. Thanks for that.

Regenesus, I also appreciate your coming to my defense in this case. I can certainly appreciate that others have differing views, and that my views may completely legitimately warrant -S ratings. However, Seiryuu's attacks on me for continuing the conversation on my comment page, in spite of the readily available fact that I did not start the conversation, perturbed me a bit. In that light, and in the respectfulness you have shown me and my beliefs in spite of your won disagreement, thank you for your words.
Samwise
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Samwise 22 United States MelancholicPhlegmatic INFP 213C
I feel you're fighting fire with flames- attacking Seiryuu's character for his attack on Laz's beliefs is not justified, and only heightens tensions between members. I appreciate your stance- and respect Laz's faith, though I disagree- but using harsh phrases and violent wording does not promote peace and open-mindedness. I behoove everyone involved (Laz, Regen, Seir, and others) to refrain from causing bitterness and grudges to build in our community. We're each a respectable human being; and we should not belittle that respect with ad hominem arguments.

Also, I'd like to compliment Laz's courage- it amazes me that he remains civil and logical in the face of overwhelming opposition. Kudos.
Regenesus
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I apologize for that, but in these situations I do not really feel the need to soften my tone. If someone angers me, and I choose to speak, then my words will carry anger with them.

As someone who has been attacked for not following Christianity before (in real life), this struck a chord with me... It actually is the same situation that I experienced--a group of people of another faith attacking me or debating with me simultaneously without provocation--and I completely consider it a form of bullying. If I insulted anyone's character, then it was because I was genuinely offended by their conduct. Sometimes it takes a harsh tone to bring the severity of a situation to people's attention.

I probably could have been a little nicer about it, but I do feel that "violent wording" was the best tool to discourage this from happening again in the future.
Purgatory
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Regenesus, the third paragraph of your post seems to indicate that you know our character traits and the reasons for our actions better than we do. If you wouldn't object, I would like read an explanation of why you have decided to include it in your post.
Regenesus
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You were admittedly the most civil of all the people to interrogate him, but let me ask you this: why did you choose to publicly question him?

If you were legitimately interested in just hearing his explanations on certain theological issues, you easily could have sent him a private message and held the discussion out of the public eye... But instead you chose to ask the questions in a comment that branched off his defense against fatemaster. Nothing truly bad happened in this situation, in particular because lazarony was so thorough in ensuring he understood every question he was asked... But when you speak to someone in that situation, it only takes a single mistake on that person's part for them to look stupid or incorrect in front of the whole community. Obviously I do not truly know your motivation here, but at the very least it shows a lack of concern for the guy who you are questioning.

This community is predominately atheist, and has a long history of being mildly unwelcoming toward the devout. It is pretty clear that the other people who were part of this were hostile toward lazarony, so even if your intentions were not hostile at all, this is not really an ideal place to ask friendly questions. Pardon me if I lumped you into the attackers for that reason.
Purgatory
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I chose to publicly question him because I have thought that it would have been far too great an inconvenience to question him privately. However, before reading your reply, I wasn't aware of the fact that in doing so, I have precluded all possibilities of keeping his mistakes secret. While I am not uninformed of the incidents that God's Servant and !!  Faithful Servant were involved in, I would like to know more about this community's "long history". Furthermore, I am uncertain of the degree to which fatemaster and Seiryuu were hostile toward lazarony, and consequently do not know whether or not a pardon would be in order. Thank you very much for your explanation, Regenesus.
Regenesus
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Other than the instances with those two, there are not many other situations that truly stand out in the history of Fig Hunter. What I am referring to is more of an attitude the community has had for at least four or five years; I can clearly remember it from when I first joined.

Fig Hunter is a predominately atheist and agnostic community. Many of the people here are very scientifically-minded: everything requires documented evidence, arguments must follow a clear logical process, and so on. And that is perfectly fine... But when you have a large group of people who often feel bitter toward religion, trends in attitude begin to emerge.

Christians may absolutely be active and accepted members of Fig Hunter, but if they voice their opinion on the divine, they are quite liable to get a dismissive or snide response from someone else. Situations like these worry me. Atheists and agnostics often feel as if they are denigrated by the religious, and they definitely are... But when we conduct ourselves like this online, we behave in the exact same way those Christians do away from the computer. I know I hate being treated in such a way, and the last thing I would want is for someone else to be treated similarly while I stand by and silently watch.

Sorry if I responded harshly, but I would hate for something like this to happen again and make anyone feel uncomfortable or attacked.
fatemaster
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How can you live only for god and be content? Have you ever even considered the fact that if he dosent exist, your entire being would be wasted and the small amount of time you have here would be gone forever? And if *any* religion was to be real, then out of the countless religions in the world, how can you know that yours is the correct one? The idea that god loves everyone but would let them perpetually suffer with no chance of recompense is madness. If he loves everyone, including men, then why can't us mere mortals follow in His Absolute Holiness's footsteps and be homosexual?
lazarony
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lazarony 30 United States CholericSanguine ESTJ 8w7 503C
Lots of interesting points rolled up in there.

I want to start by stating I'm not a blind fool, or an idiot. I consider myself a highly intelligent person (though in my own arrogance, I likely think I'm far smarter than I actually am), and am capable of scientific thought normally reserved for a well-ordered mind. I'm not trying to flaunt my laurels or brag or anything, just prefacing the emotional nature of what I'm about to say with a simple, "I'm not stupid, or naive." in fact, on the second point, I consider myself quite the realist as well.

So, right down to it, then. First, I know God exists. There is no doubt of this in my mind. Call me crazy, but the presence of God is palpable, and His plan in action can be seen on more occasions than you could believe in simple every day life. Suffice it say, there is no coincidence, just God's plan. That, in itself, is enough for me.

Second, I know my religion is right because God Himself came down to the earth to authenticate it in human form, and died as a man to save us from our sin. His divine intervention throughout history on behalf of the nation of Israel and the Jewish people is documented throughout His holy Word, and the inspired words of His prophets from millenia ago were proven to be true in the aforementioned coming of His Son (keep in mind, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all God).

Third, why is it madness that rebellion against the Lord's will earns us eternal damnation? The only thing we can take credit for in our lives is sin. That's a pretty bad track record, and we all deserve eternal death. God's grace allows us to accept His Son as our Savior and live.

I love men the same way I love women aside of my wife. It is a brotherly love, and your attempt to use wordplay to make an argument is poor at best and an affront to my intelligence at worst. "Love" in the context of God's love is not like the love between a man and a woman, as we are His children, not His brides. Unless you would like to offer up real points on this matter, please don't continue this particular line of questioning; you offered no argument, just an empty accusation with a play on English language as an attempt at a "proof."

So, hopefully that at least addressed your questions, if not answered them. And with all but the last point, further input is welcomed (this also extends to the last point, assuming you would like to bring an actual argument to the table).
Seiryuu
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Good Lord, not this again.

I'll have to remind myself to cleanse myself in the Appendages of His Noodliness and to cite this one "essay" where it offered a supposition as to why everyone's going to hell anyway.
lazarony
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lazarony 30 United States CholericSanguine ESTJ 8w7 503C
I didn't start it, for the record. Someone posted on my comment page...I wasn't planning on bringing it up, just responding.
Seiryuu
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Just like the other threads you started. Yeah. Right.
lazarony
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lazarony 30 United States CholericSanguine ESTJ 8w7 503C
I started one thread...one. Do you have some sort of personal problem with me, or are you just in a bad mood and decided to vent on my user comment page?
Seiryuu
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You raised a crapstorm on a few others. I don't have a personal beef with you, but rather everyone who claims that their religion is the the true one and all the others are infidels who will go to hell unless you're blessed by some cosmic being whose being is the centre of debate despite the fact that there's no real answer and is all moot.

Excuse me while I take His Noodliness into my body.
lazarony
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lazarony 30 United States CholericSanguine ESTJ 8w7 503C
A "crapstorm" was never the intent, as I'm sure you know. I started a single thread, and commented (with extremely relevant material, mind you) on one other (the abstinence thread). You're perfectly allowed to hit the "-S" if you disagree, I just ask that you don't assume I'm ignorant just because I openly state my beliefs. I don't think less of anyone because they don't share my beliefs, I just seek to care for them by sharing my beliefs. After all, my beliefs quite literally call me to share them, so I do so. In a manner of speaking, degrading me for sharing my beliefs or discouraging me from sharing them is actually religious oppression.

I'm not seeking to cause harm or unrest, just share what I believe. Unless someone specifically asked, I never brought up my beliefs about damnation or hell. I will answer honestly, and if a hard question is posed, I will not shy away from it. Nevertheless, I will not openly seek conflict, and have never posted something I knew would cause harm or anger beforehand.
Purgatory
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Hello lazarony. I have some questions that I would like to see answered.

lazarony said:
...the presence of God is palpable, and His plan in action can be seen on more occasions than you could believe in simple every day life.


Why should we believe that it is so and not otherwise?

lazarony said:
...there is no coincidence, just God's plan.


How can you be certain of the degree to which this God is responsible for the changes which have occurred and are occurring in the Universe?

lazarony said:
The only thing we can take credit for in our lives is sin. That's a pretty bad track record, and we all deserve eternal death.


Why?

lazarony said:
...just an empty accusation...


How did fatemaster accuse you?

lazarony said:
...if you don't believe in Christ, you're going to hell.


Why should we consider this statement veridical?
lazarony
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lazarony 30 United States CholericSanguine ESTJ 8w7 503C
I'm sorry, but you're taking all of these out of context, and it's hard for me to track everything down. If you post the relevant questions in responses to the actual posts, I'll answer them happily, but as it stands now, I can't be sure I'm giving an answer that satisfies your question without the context.
Purgatory
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lazarony, please read ∞ fatemaster's comment ∞; sentences 4 and 5 of paragraph 3, sentences 2 and 3 of paragraph 5, and sentence 4 of paragraph 6 of ∞ your response to fatemaster's comment ∞; and the first sentence of the third paragraph in ∞ your Bio ∞ below the tildes. I hope that you will be able to answer my questions with greater ease after doing so.
lazarony
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lazarony 30 United States CholericSanguine ESTJ 8w7 503C
Quote:
Why should we believe that it is so and not otherwise?

That what is so? "It is so" is about as vague as you could be. I don't want to answer the question incorrectly, so please restate exactly what it is you are asking.

Quote:
How can you be certain of the degree to which this God is responsible for the changes which have occurred and are occurring in the Universe?

For one, Proverbs 16:33 reads, "The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD." This is referring to games of chance or generally "random" occurrences, and certainly applies to everything.
Further, we know that God is doing all things for good by Romans 8:28, "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose."

Quote:
Why?

K, two statements were made, so I'll briefly answer both. If you want more, be more specific:
We can only take credit for sin, as God did not introduce it into the world. He created everything else, but we, using our free will, brought sin into the mix.
We deserve death for sinning because God says so in Romans 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Quote:
How did fatemaster accuse you?

He didn't accuse me...this sentence, quoted from his comment, is what I spoke of:
Quote:
follow in His Absolute Holiness's footsteps and be homosexual?

The accusation is that God is homosexual, but he was simply using wordplay, and not a true foundational argument.

Quote:
Why should we consider this statement veridical?

Back to Romans 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Does that answer your questions?
Purgatory
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lazarony said:
That what is so? "It is so" is about as vague as you could be. I don't want to answer the question incorrectly, so please restate exactly what it is you are asking.

You have mentioned that the presence of God is palpable, and that His plan in action can be seen on more occasions than one could believe in simple every day life. How accurate is this opinion relative to your empirical knowledge of reality, and why?


Furthermore, if you wouldn't object, I would prefer that you elaborate on your answers because the veridicality of the information contained within the Bible is still unknown to me.
lazarony
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lazarony 30 United States CholericSanguine ESTJ 8w7 503C
Quote:
You have mentioned that the presence of God is palpable, and that His plan in action can be seen on more occasions than one could believe in simple every day life. How accurate is this opinion relative to your empirical knowledge of reality, and why?

That depends on whether or not you can accept seemingly crazy coincidence as just that, or believe that there was an unseen hand (no, not Adam Smith :P) involved.

Quote:
Furthermore, if you wouldn't object, I would prefer that you elaborate on your answers because the veridicality of the information contained within the Bible is still unknown to me.

Elaborate on the inerrancy of the Bible? Quite frankly, the Bible itself claims its own inerrancy, and therefore veridicality. So I can elaborate on it using verses that describe said inerrancy, though I doubt you'd find them to be proof enough.
Purgatory
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lazarony said:
That depends on whether or not you can accept seemingly crazy coincidence as just that, or believe that there was an unseen hand (no, not Adam Smith :P) involved.

I do not understand why you have answered my question as you have, and would prefer that you explain your answer.

lazarony said:
Elaborate on the inerrancy of the Bible? Quite frankly, the Bible itself claims its own inerrancy, and therefore veridicality. So I can elaborate on it using verses that describe said inerrancy, though I doubt you'd find them to be proof enough.

You doubt well, lazarony. I know of no reason to believe that humans - and gods - are incapable of deceiving.
Megabdi
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._.

Please, let's just stop this pointless argument. No arguments either of you provide will ever satisfy the other side.
Purgatory
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Why do you believe that we will fail to satisfy each other? Do you know why we are engaged in this "argument"?
Megabdi
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I believe this argument is pointless is because that any argument that is provided can be ignored completely or covered over with pseudo-answers. No argument will satisfy the other side because they'll always want to prove the other wrong and such. It's not like a debate where all sides are seen equally then challenged. If this were the case, then I'd have no problem.

But no, instead, this argument was started just for the sake of disproving something that basically has no negative effects.

Let's just stop this before it starts getting ugly. Please.
No good or knowledge has ever come out of arguments such like these.
Seiryuu
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Trust me, there's nothing that's of worth you can get from this argument. Arguments like these are philosophical and as ways of thinking it's absurd to challenge them. Now, if they were more material, there'd be something more to talk about.
Purgatory
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!!  Megabdi and Seiryuu, thank you for answering my questions. I seems as though I may need specific empirical knowledge to best understand the answers that I would be satisfied with.